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WINEMAKER INTERVIEW January 2017 WINES&VINES 105 Q At Donkey & Goat, you've experi- mented with fermenting a variety of white grapes on the skins. Why did you want to do this? With which varieties have you had the best success? What problems have you encountered? Jared Brandt: We began experimenting with white wine skin ferments with Roussanne. Today, that Roussanne is our Stone Crusher. The impetus to experiment with skin contact came from our being fascinated with the wines from Gravner, Radikon and Paolo Bea in Italy and wanting to explore how to make such a wine. Plus, we realized in 2006 that our Rous- sanne was going to prove challenging as it struggled to complete primary fermentation in less than 12 months (a natural fermentation with no additives). We figured the skins would give the ferment the added nutrients it needed, and we could learn. The 2006 Roussanne was among the slowest ferments we have ever seen. It took probably eight months to go dry. We called that wine Tamarindo. Since then, we have experimented with a multitude of white grapes on the skins: Rous- sanne, Marsanne, Vermentino, Grenache Blanc, Pinot Gris (nearly white), and in 2010 we did try one of our Chardonnay vineyards. We were not happy with the Chardonnay that year, we found that the mineral undertones—I like to think of the smell of rocks when fly fishing— disappeared with the skin contact. Since then we have focused on our Rhône varietals and Tracey's new (2014) Pinot Gris. However, in retrospect, there were other variables that may have led to our dissatisfaction with Chardon- nay, and we do plan to try again. We have had several skin-fermented Chardonnays that are intriguing. Thomas Fogarty makes an interest- ing and very good one. After 10 years, we have a sizable amount of data and learning. Early on, we decided to minimize the oxidative quality often found in skin-fermented white wines, as well as the volatile acidity. To do that, we protect the grapes with CO 2 before fermentation starts and as it winds down. We have experimented with not doing this and have found that even though the fermentation chews through most of the oxygen, it still ends up being slightly oxidative and with higher levels of VA. Tannin manage- ment is key, we taste constantly and press be- fore the wine is dry on most skin ferments. We have found that if you don't press early, you need to wait until the tannins come back down post-fermentation, usually at 50-plus days. We have evaluated the impact of alcohol on extrac- tion of tannins and found that the higher the alcohol, the higher and rougher the tannin extraction. Our Roussanne/Stone Crusher has never been over 14% (alcohol), and since we pick for acidity more than sugar, our Roussanne is picked at lower sugar levels, which results in the more feminine style of skin ferment. Our experiments with stem inclusion have not worked to date. On reds, we are often at 40% to 50% stems, but on the whites, the green, chewy tannins from the stems haven't worked. It has also been clear over the years that these wines require bottle age to really show their power and beauty. Grenache Blanc can be ex- tremely tannic for three to four years. Once those tannins soften, the wine emerges beautifully. Skin contact, for us, might be the ultimate expression of terroir. In some senses, it is the most minimalistic of winemaking techniques. For our Roussanne, any other winemaking would require more intervention, masking place. These wines also pair beautifully with food. Diver scallops, for example, sometimes needs more oomph than a white, yet need the acid of a white. Q You do at least some whole-cluster fermentation on most of your reds. How do you decide what percentage of whole clusters to use? Have you found any drawbacks or problems? Brandt: We have made red wines with stem inclusion since 2006. Most of our reds include